9.8 mm or 9.65 mm?

by
posted on January 22, 2014
wiley-clapp.jpg

The first decade of the 20th century saw a lot of developmental effort in the handgun field. It’s well known that legendary designer John Browning was involved in both American and European firearms design. In 1910, he had all but completed-with Colt and Army Ordnance-the development of the Government Model .45 pistol. Mr. Browning was also working with FN, the national arms plant of Belgium, and had used essentially the same design as the Colt. There were several different Colt pistols that had an FN counterpart. This was done with the approval of all concerned, because the two companies agreed not to sell arms in the others territories. They had literally divvied up the world and everything was working fine.

But they had omitted a few countries, which were open to competition. Romania, down in the Balkans, was such a place. Colt got wind of a Romanian interest in some kind of medium-bore auto. They developed and produced a scaled-down version of the soon-to-be famous 1911 pistol.  In so doing, they created a collector’s item, the 9.8 mm Colt. Only a few were made, because Colt salesmen were unable to sell the Romanian buyers on the gun.

Aware that this was going on, FN came up with a version of the same pistol. Once again, they were unable to sell anyone on the idea and the guns never went beyond the production prototype stage. They used a cartridge called the 9.65 mm Browning. All of this was well recorded in several respected sources. I once saw one of the Colt pistols at an NRA Convention, but was not allowed to handle it. I have never seen the FN gun or the ammo for it. The whole concept is very interesting to me, but the ammunition is even more so. If Colt and FN made essentially the same gun, why did they use two different cartridges?

It looks like they didn’t. The 9.8 mm Colt and 9.65 mm Browning are (nominally) .15 mm different in size. In English measurement, that is about .0059-fifty-nine ten thousandths-of an inch. That really is not much. As a matter of fact, it’s just about the difference between bore diameter and groove diameter. I would bet serious money that this was the difference between the 9.8 mm Colt and the 9.65 Browning. One company named its round on bore diameter, the other on groove. There is no real difference.

Latest

Forehand & Wadsworth British Bull-Dog right-side view nickel-plated gun revolver with black grip
Forehand & Wadsworth British Bull-Dog right-side view nickel-plated gun revolver with black grip

I Have This Old Gun: Forehand & Wadsworth British Bull-Dog

Many eagle-eyed NRA members viewing the 1993 Western “Tombstone” no doubt recognized the Forehand & Wadsworth British Bull-Dog so deftly welded by actress Joanna Pacula, portraying Big Nose Kate, during a contemptuous card game between Doc Holliday and Ed Bailey.

Medal Of Honor Marine Receives Henry Repeating Arms Tribute

Henry Repeating Arms presented a Spirit of the Corps 250th Anniversary Tribute Edition rifle to Maj. Gen. Livingston for going above and beyond the call of duty on May 2, 1968, during the Battle of Dai Do in Vietnam.

Preview: Duramag 1911 DS Magazines

Duramag’s 1911 DS Magazines are compatible with numerous 9 mm Luger-chambered 2011-style handguns on the market.

Colt Monitor: The FBI’s “Fighting Rifle”

In the years between the World Wars, a rare variation of the Browning Automatic Rifle proved its reputation as an effective, devastating automatic rifle for combat between the country’s lawmen and its outlaws.

The Armed Citizen® May 19, 2025

Read today's "The Armed Citizen" entry for real stories of law-abiding citizens, past and present, who used their firearms to save lives.

Report Shows Inventory, Prices Have Dropped At Firearm Retailers

Nearly all gun and related gear inventories at retailers dropped in the last 12 months. So have most prices paid at the counter, according to the year-over-year comparison detailed in the latest RetailBI report.

Interests



Get the best of American Rifleman delivered to your inbox.